Fletcher vs Mascherano

It's slow season, so I'll keep this ticking over my putting up modified versions of posts from some online debates I take part in.


This article is discussing the two players mentioned in the title, their form and so on. The basic point was fans of Liverpool suggesting that Fletcher isn't as good a player as Mascherano. When I say "you" it's in direct reply to Liverpool fans that I was having this little tête-à-tête with. Their opinions should be clear from my replies.

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You say Mascherano is a superior player than Fletcher, yet performances on the park say otherwise. You're so totally caught up in the spell of having an exotic name with a big reputation that you automically propel him above a player who's been a bit part player for us with a terrible reputation as a make-weight only surviving at the club because he shares the manager's nationality. Open your eyes, look past that and see what they do on the pitch. You take the typical, moronic football fan opinion that once a reputation is forged, it can't be changed. Fletcher is a lesser player and can NEVER change that. It isn't like players can improve, eh?

In the last two full seasons, Fletcher has been better than Mascherano, even thought two years ago Fletcher played much fewer games he was always excellent when he played. Mascherano had a storming run at the end of the 06/07 season when he first arrived but hasn't built on that to have any claim to be truly world class.

As a break up guy, superb. Always has been. One of the best in the business and in that role alone is a better player than Fletcher. It's a shame for the Argentine that that's all he brings to Liverpool. He doesn't link up midfield. He doesn't read the attacking side of the game. He offers nothing beyond the half way line.

I find it hilarious that you have the temerity to accuse me of bias when you are the one putting a media built reputation (Argentine captain, Maradona loves him, must be superb) over performances. Note that at no stage am I saying that Mascherano is a poor player. I'm saying that he hasn't been as good as Fletcher in the last two seasons, especially the one just finished and that he doesn't offer enough in his overall game to be considered world class.

Put your woe-is-me attitude to one sided and drop the bias line. I'm never biased in these regards. I'd take Torres in a heartbeat. Alonso made Carrick look average this season.

Tell you want, mind. Kleberson's better than Gerrard. WC winners medal, experience in other leagues and more than any of that... he's got a Brazilian name and so must be better. Viva la extranjero.

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This second one is a later reply, posted after a few more people had commented on how Fletcher was definitely not as good a player as Mascherano with no actual discussion of the players.

I judge players on their performances. Fletcher's have been better in the past year, if not two.

The media tells you that Mascherano is a world class player, captain of Argentina and affords him all the wonder and grandeur of being foreign (ie. exotic and thus better in their eyes). Fletcher is still too boring for the media. An unassuming Scottish lad who goes about things quietly and who has, as you have said, only benefitted in terms of appearances due to the loss of Hargreaves. You are happy to leave your opinion right there because it suits you. That's how you hide behind the media, backing up your stance with what they say for the most.

In terms of potential ability, I'd happily say that Mascherano looks like he has a better career ahead of him. He's established in a better international team and doesn't have the stigma hanging over him of being a bit-part player. He also benefits from being the best in his position at his current club. Fletcher doesn't have the luxury as a fit Hargreaves (does such a beast exist?) will surely replace him in the side if/when he returns. I have massive reservations over his all round game. As much as it's easy to hide behind the fact that he's seen as a destructive midfielder thus his attacking outlet doesn't matter, that's not at all true. Football is a different beast now, players need more to their game. A holding midfielder shouldn't be so limited as Mascherano is going forward; this covers both his vision in reading the attacking side of the game and also his technical ability to operate there.

If you believe this doesn't matter so much, fair enough. I wouldn't be happy to carry such a player in my side. If you think I'm understating his ability, then I suggest you watch him more. He relies so much on his athleticism, it's almost alarming.

I've long said that a massive problem for Liverpool has been the style in which they attack. They rely so heavily on individuals, the system can't cope without them. Gerrard, Torres, Alonso. Going without these players who can continually add attacking flair to the game causes long term problems for Liverpool. Players like Lucas and Mascherano can't add this. Players like Keane and Vieira, true greats in the game, scored goals and were attacking outlets. Mascherano doesn't and until he does, he won't be on top of his game or world class imo. Not for Liverpool anyway. At Barca, he'd be much more suited to their style. They have many more attacking options, so his destructive style would probably be enough. Think of Makelele at Chelsea and Real Madrid. He thrived because he had so many good attacking players in front of him. Robben, Joe Cole, Lampard, Duff and then the Real Galacticos in the likes of Figo et al.

So yea. Mascherano. One of the best man markers around, great tackler and very atheltic. The kind of player who plays with real passion and so fans love. Like Tevez at United. And my opinions on him have shown that passion isn't enough when your overall game is lacking, I wanted him out from very early.

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So, am I just being biased? I don't think so. I know what I see on the pitch and over the last two seasons, especially the one just finished, Fletcher has been superb and Mascherano hasn't played to the same standard. Forget reputation. Players improve and get worse and I'll judge them on what they've done recently, not a mass of media spin that is given an indefinite Use By date.

Superb News: Tevez is set for City

We offered £25.5m for him? Whoever sanctioned that should be ashamed of themselves.

We won't miss his lack of pace, his inability to locate the penalty area, his five league goals, his woeful standard of fitness and the whinging to the media about not being treated fairly, Joorabchian orchestrated or not.

If he is City bound as is expected then the collection of morons that booed Ferguson's (correct) decision to take Tevez off as we secured a draw to win the league will have to bow their heads in shame. In fact, anyone who still believes the ludicrous media myth that Tevez is world class is monumentally deluded. No matter what the odious little pleb does it won't be to a standard that we need or deserve.

So we were offering £25.5m for Tevez, £17m for Valencia and £40m for Ribery, if reports are to be believe. That means we have a transfer kitty of at least £80m if you follow that to the logical conclusion. That could be interesting.

An early end of the Ronaldo saga.

Well, if he was going to go we wanted it to be early. Ferguson ideally does his work early in the window, aiming to get players in for a preseason and settled in the area before the season kicks off.

So where to from here? These goals MUST be replaced.

I'd love to see one of Aguero, Benzema or Villa at Man Utd. Benzema is continually linked and he's probably the most likely now but Villa's goals would be my first choice; just look at how Torres adapted.

I think Antonio Valencia will join now, a somewhat direct replacement to Ronaldo on the right but he brings less goals in a more conventional right winger style.

Ribery is heavily linked and I've been vocal in the past against him, I just get this niggling feeling he won't adapt to the pace of the league. Strutting your stuff in Germany is one thing but the Premier League is a different matter.

Nani is being touted as going back to Sporting with Moutinho moving the other way. We do need to bolster the centre midfield but I'm not convinced he's the man.

In defence, I'd love to see Glen Johnson come in at RB, freeing up Wes Brown to be RB/CB cover and allowing Rafael to learn his trade more.

One more thing that I feel is essential. None of the £80m should be spent on Tevez. He should be left firmly in the past at Man Utd. We need better.

End of Season Lethargy - ring the changes, Fergie

Well, with the enthusiasm of Champions League runners-up, I've taken a back seat with this blog yet again.

I'm going to attempt to learn some website techno-wizardry over the next few weeks and hopefully start again with my own site away from blogger at this same address in time for the new season.

I can envisage myself toiling extremely hard only to return to blogger, which has in all honesty served me very well since the New Year.

I'll leave this season on the following note; yes, our season limped out in a horrible manner but we're still the English team to beat. The position we're in now is still where everyone else wants to be. We've got a damn good shot at number 19 next year but we need to strengthen the team, especially in midfield where we are currently lacking. I wouldn't be sad to see Nani and Anderson both leaving. The love in over the Brazilian especially must be over. Too many fans have spent the season creaming themselves over how he matched Fabregas in a 2-2 draw that is now two seasons ago. I think Hargreaves may well retire sooner rather than later.

I also won't be sad to see Tevez leave, if that which looks inevitable occurs. He's been poison coming towards the end of the season. His constant bleating to the fans about how he hasn't been treated well was pathetic, but no more pathetic than the fans who booed his removal against Arsenal or who chant "Sign him up" when he does something mediocre. Five league goals and a pot belly. That's what he brings to the team. If he put as much effort into getting into shape as he does twisting the media to secure a completely undeserved contract, maybe he wouldn't be running scared that he'll be a Liverpool or City player next season. I can only assume we're trying to get a striker in now so that we can let him move on, lest be forced to sign him.

I'm willing to give Berbatov an entire preseason with the club, something he didn't have last season, and judge him around Christmas time. So much talent, he just needs to channel it in new ways.

Defensive cover would be nice though Wes Brown returning would be like a new signing. Rafael's appearance this last season was a breath of fresh air, along with his brother to cover at RB. Rio and Jonny Evans needs to shake this knack of picking up injuries... hopefully a rest will do them wonders.

I'll sign off this post with a wish. Please, Benzema. Please.